Adventisti i Elen Vajt

Učlanjen(a)
22.07.2016
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Ne ja, braća subotari ti se pozivaju na 'proročicu' i njezinim spisima dokazuju da je Isus Bog

Isto kao i ti. Nema razlike.

Isus Bog koji se Mojsiju objavio iz plamtećeg grma riječima - "Ja jesam". Dokazuj njima i uvjeravaj njih da su heretičari.

Svako ko iznosi tako nešto treba da bude upućen u bolje razumevanje. Ovde si ti EGW-ist troičar. Nemoj se uvrediti ali tu si se svrstao.

Hristos je bio taj koji je iz grma na brdu Horiv progovorio Mojsiju govoreći: »JA SAM ONAJ KOJI JESTE… tako ćeš kazati sinovima Izrailjevim: koji JEST, on me posla k vama.« (2. Mojsijeva 3,14) (Ellen White, Čežnja vjekova)

Jeste, sve to piše. Ali ja ti još jednom kažem, da tekstove Elen Vajt ne možeš uzeti same za sebe(ona je manje svetlo, a Biblija veće..tako je definisano kod Adventista i to jeste zdrav pristup). E sada to znači da najpre moramo znati šta Biblija govori o svemu pa tek onda razumeti Elen Vajt i njene reči. Ne ide obrnuto. Ako neko uzme Elen Vajt i njene reči sa ciljem da izgradi dogmu greši.

Tako dakle ovaj tekst mora biti u skladu sa Biblijskom naukom.

Dakle, Hrist jeste bio u grmu(Reč) koja nosi "Ja Jesam" u sebi..Ona nastupa u ime "Ja jesam"..isto kao što kaže za anđela koji iđaše ispred Izraela a za koga se kaže da je u Njemu "ime moje" kako kaže Jahve.

Već smo ranije razmatrali da je Biblija jasna da stvoreno ne može videti Boga. To je Biblijska nauka. Može videti samo pojavni oblik koji onda mora biti "ispražnjen" od Božanskog u sebi. Zapovest zato i kaže da je prekršaj prikaz Boga vidljivim jer Božanski princip je da sve što je vidljivo je "ispražnjeno" Božanstva.

Tako da je Reč zaista mogla biti u grmu i u sebi nositi "Ja jesam". Ali ne i biti "Ja jesam." Samo se mora razumeti šta Pismo o ovim stvarima govori.
 
Učlanjen(a)
07.07.2014
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Dakle, Hrist jeste bio u grmu(Reč) koja nosi "Ja Jesam" u sebi..Ona nastupa u ime "Ja jesam"..

Onaj koji se objavio Mojsiju nije rekao da nastupa "u ime Ja jesam", nego je rekao da je On "Ja jesam". Čak ti i 'proročica' to piše da je sve jasno, vidi:

Hristos je bio taj koji je iz grma na brdu Horiv progovorio Mojsiju govoreći: »JA SAM ONAJ KOJI JESTE… tako ćeš kazati sinovima Izrailjevim: koji JEST, on me posla k vama.« (2. Mojsijeva 3,14) (Ellen White, Čežnja vjekova)

Ne kaže Isus "Ja sam u ime onoga koji jeste", nego kaže - "Ja sam onaj koji jeste".

P.S.
Imaš li kakva saznanja koliko vas subotara naginje Jehovinim svjedocima i muhamedancima, ovako kao ti, a koliko je onih drugih - "nominalnih subotara"?
 
Učlanjen(a)
11.02.2009
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8.070
Ne kaže Isus "Ja sam u ime onoga koji jeste", nego kaže - "Ja sam onaj koji jeste".

Hmm, isto tako ni Entitet koji se javlja Mojsiju na Horebu, ne govori da je tu u ime "Ja sam koji jesam". Niti se Entitet koji spašava Hagarinog sina Ishmaela, predstavlja kao "Ja sam u ime El Shaddai", niti se Entitet koji Abrahama sprečava da žrtvuje Izaka, predstavlja kao "predstavnik" Adonai-a... Da napomenem samo neke od primera.

Uz sve to niti jedan od anđela u čitavom Svetom Pismu (oba Zavjeta) kada prenosi poruku to ne čini govoreći u PRVOM LICU.
 
Učlanjen(a)
22.07.2016
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11.465
Onaj koji se objavio Mojsiju nije rekao da nastupa "u ime Ja jesam", nego je rekao da je On "Ja jesam". Čak ti i 'proročica' to piše da je sve jasno, vidi:

Hristos je bio taj koji je iz grma na brdu Horiv progovorio Mojsiju govoreći: »JA SAM ONAJ KOJI JESTE… tako ćeš kazati sinovima Izrailjevim: koji JEST, on me posla k vama.« (2. Mojsijeva 3,14) (Ellen White, Čežnja vjekova)

Ne kaže Isus "Ja sam u ime onoga koji jeste", nego kaže - "Ja sam onaj koji jeste".

To se mora baš tako razumeti jer pojavni oblik Jahve nije moguć. Čim se nešto pojavi, u tome nema Božanstva jer prisustvo Božanstva nije moguće.

Već navedoh i anđela(anđela zavetnog) gde je jasno da je ime Jahve u Njemu. To sam kaže.

A to što neko citira Jahve ne znači da je On Jahve.

Kako je Krist mogao biti u plamtećem grmu i objaviti se Mojsiju riječima - Ja jesam, ako je Krist samo čovjek i ako se rodio 13oo godina nakon Mojsija?????

Pojavni oblik Hrista je isključivo samo vezan za rođenje u Judeji. Tada je uzeo na sebe i telo grehovno. Ali ranije(Reč Božija) je uzimao obličje prilagođeno nebeskim realnostima. U grmu je uzeo drugo obličje. Nije to problem razumeti. I u tom smislu je poistovećen Onaj iz grma i Isus na zemlji.
 
Učlanjen(a)
07.07.2014
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To se mora baš tako razumeti jer pojavni oblik Jahve nije moguć. Čim se nešto pojavi, u tome nema Božanstva jer prisustvo Božanstva nije moguće.

Ali kako se Mojsiju mogao objaviti neki čovjek, lagati mu da je on Bog - "Ja jesam", i još pri tome riječ je o čovjeku koji se rodio 1300 godina toga događaja!?!? :mig:

Već navedoh i anđela(anđela zavetnog) gde je jasno da je ime Jahve u Njemu. To sam kaže.

Ovo je već nova (novija) tvoja nauka. Sada više nije samo Isus arkanđeo Mihael, nego je po tebi i Jahve arkanđeo Mihael. Još samo čekam da zaokružiš ovu svoju "teološko-religijsku šizofreniju", i zaključiš kako je alah stvorio Jahvu. Jer je Jahve kao Mihael stvoreno biće.

A to što neko citira Jahve ne znači da je On Jahve.

Tako je. Ovime si pak dokazao da ti nisi Jahve, Bog, a nisi Bogu Isusu opovrgnuo da je On pravi Bog.

Pojavni oblik Hrista je isključivo samo vezan za rođenje u Judeji. Tada je uzeo na sebe i telo grehovno. Ali ranije(Reč Božija) je uzimao obličje prilagođeno nebeskim realnostima. U grmu je uzeo drugo obličje. Nije to problem razumeti. I u tom smislu je poistovećen Onaj iz grma i Isus na zemlji.

Samo idiot može optužiti Hitlera za razorenje Jeruzalema prije 2.000 godina. Jednako tako, samo idiot može tvrditi da je Isus samo čovjek, ali da se objavio Mojsiju 1.300 godina prije nego što ga je rodila Njegova majka Blažena Djevica Marija.

P.S. Ovako Jovane. Najbolje bi bilo da se ti mene, kao "krštene duše" (kršćanina), okaniš i prestaneš me maltretirati ovakvim skaradnim uvjeravanjima. Prvo, mi kršćani vjerujemo Isusu, vjerujemo apostolima i vjerujemo Kristovoj Crkvi, dakle vjerujemo u svoga Spasitelja i Boga Isusa Krista. Drugo, imaš svoje subotare, oni ne vjeruju ni Isusu ni apostolima ni Kristovoj Crkvi, oni vjeruju samo i jedino Ellen White i sekti koju je ona osnovala. Zato se ti angažiraj oko svoje braće EGWista, njih uvjeravaj kako vam 'proročica' ne vjeruje u Boga Isusa i njih prevodi i privodi u svoju vjeru i svoju sektu.
 
Učlanjen(a)
11.02.2009
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8.070
Ovo je već nova (novija) tvoja nauka. Sada više nije samo Isus arkanđeo Mihael, nego je po tebi i Jahve arkanđeo Mihael. Još samo čekam da zaokružiš ovu svoju "teološko-religijsku šizofreniju", i zaključiš kako je alah stvorio Jahvu. Jer je Jahve kao Mihael stvoreno biće.

Napisao sam ranije (danas sam to ponovio) da se radi o apokrifnom Enohu i u istom spomenutom anđelu Metatronu (pazi, radi se o grčkom imenu koje se nalazi u navodno čisto hebrejskom Enohu, a koje znači "Onaj iza prestolja) kojeg u kabalističkoj (zapadnoj - protestantsko Engleskoj okultističkoj verziji iste. Židovima na pamet ne pada da Tetragramaton pripišu ikome drugome) nazivaju "drugi YHWH"


Čitajmo, iako se radi o wikipediji...


Metatron​


Connected to:​


Kabbalah Babylonian Talmud Torah



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​


Metatron (Hebrew: מֶטָטְרוֹן‎‎ Meṭāṭrōn, מִטַּטְרוֹן Mīṭṭaṭ'rōn, מְטַטְרוֹן‎ Məṭaṭrōn, מֵיטַטְרוֹן‎ Mēṭaṭrōn, מִיטַטְרוֹן‎ Mīṭaṭrōn) or Mattatron (מַטַּטְרוֹן‎ Maṭṭaṭrōn)[1] is an angel in Judaism mentioned three times in the Bavli in a few brief passages in the Aggadah and in mystical Kabbalistic texts within Rabbinic literature. The figure forms one of the traces for the presence of dualist proclivities in the otherwise monotheistic visions of both the Tanakh and later Christian doctrine.[2] The name Metatron is not mentioned in the Torah nor the Bible and how the name originated is a matter of debate. In Islamic tradition, he is also known as Mīṭaṭrūn (Arabic: ميططرون‎), the angel of the veil.[3][4] In folkloristic tradition, he is the highest of the angels and serves as the celestial scribe or "recording angel".[5]
In Jewish apocrypha and early Kabbalah, "Metatron" is the name that Enoch received after his transformation into an angel.

Etymology​

Numerous etymologies have been proposed to account for the name Metatron, but there is no consensus, and its precise origin is unknown.[6][7] Some scholars, such as Philip Alexander, believe that if the name Metatron originated in Hekhalot-Merkabah texts (such as 3 Enoch), then it may have been a magic word like Adiriron and Dapdapiron.[8]
Hugo Odeberg,[9] Adolf Jellinek[10] and Marcus Jastrow[11] suggested the name may have originated from either Mattara (מטרא) "keeper of the watch" or the verb Memater (ממטר) "to guard" or "to protect". An early derivation of this can be seen in Shimmusha Rabbah, where Enoch is clothed in light and is the guardian of the souls ascending to heaven. Odeberg also suggested that the name Metatron might have been adopted from the Old Persian name Mithra.[9] Citing Wiesner,[12] he drew up a number of parallels that appeared to link Mithra and Metatron based on their positions in heaven and duties.
Another hypothesis would derive Metatron from a combination of two Greek words, meaning after μετὰ and throne, θρóνος which, taken together, would suggest the idea of "one who serves behind the throne" or "one who occupies the throne next to the throne of glory".[13] The primary arguments against this etymology are that Metatron's function as a servant of the celestial throne emerges only later in the traditions regarding him, and θρóνος itself is not attested as a word in Talmudic literature.[14]
A connection with the word σύνθρονος (synthronos) used as "co-occupant of the divine throne", has been advanced by some scholars;[15] This, like the above etymology, is not found in any source materials.[9] It is supported by Saul Lieberman and Peter Schäfer, who give further reasons why this might be a viable etymology.[16] The Latin word Metator (messenger, guide, leader, measurer) had been suggested by Eleazar of Worms (c. 1165 – c. 1230), Nachmanides, and brought to light again by Hugo Odeberg.[9] When transliterated into the Hebrew language, we get מטיטור or מיטטור. Gershom Scholem argues that there is no data to justify the conversion of metator to metatron.[17] Philip Alexander also suggests this as a possible origin of Metatron, stating that the word Metator also occurs in Greek as mitator–a word for an officer in the Roman army who acted as a forerunner. Using this etymology, Alexander suggests the name may have come about as a description of "the angel of the Lord who led the Israelites through the wilderness: acting like a Roman army metator guiding the Israelites on their way".[18][19] Another possible interpretation is that of Enoch as a metator showing them "how they could escape from the wilderness of this world into the promised land of heaven". Because we see this as a word in Hebrew, Jewish Aramaic, and Greek, Alexander believes this gives even more strength to this etymology.
Other ideas include μέτρον (metron, "a measure").[20] Charles Mopsik believes that the name Metatron may be related to the sentence from Genesis 5:24 "Enoch walked with God, then he was no more, because God took him."[21] The Greek version of the Hebrew word "to take" is μετετέθη (he was transferred).[20] רון‎ (RON) is a standard addition to מטטרון‎ (Metatron) and other angelic names in the Jewish faith. According to Mopsik, מטט‎ (MTT) is a transliteration from the Greek μετετέθη.
In the entry entitled "Paradigmata" in his study, "'The Written' as the Vocation of Conceiving Jewishly", John W McGinley gives an accounting of how this name functions in the Bavli's version of "four entered pardes".[22] This account maintains that "Ishmael ben Elisha" is a rabbinically sanctioned cognomen for Elisha ben Abuyah (the Akher of the Bavli's account). This hypothesis explains why the generators of the "chambers" portion of the Heikhalot literature make "Ishmael ben Elisha" the major protagonist of their writings even though this Rabbi Ishmael was not directly mentioned in the Bavli's account (in the Gemara to tractate Khaggigah) of "The Work of the Chariot".
Solomon Judah Loeb Rapoport in Igrot Shi"r suggests that Metatron is a combination of two Greek words which mean to "change" and "pass away" referring to Chanoch (Enoch) who "changed" into an angel and "passed away" from the world.[citation needed]

Origins​

From Hellenistic times, mention of a second divine figure, either beside YHWH or beneath him, occur in a number of Jewish texts, mostly apocryphal. These Jewish traditions implying a divine dualism were most frequently associated with Enoch. In the rabbinic period they centre on 'Metatron', often in the context of debates over the heretical doctrine of 'two powers in heaven' (shtei rashuyot ba-shamayim).[23][2] Ultimately these ideas appear to go back to differing interpretations of the heavenly enthronement passages at Exodus 24:10f., Daniel 7:9f. and perhaps even Ezekiel 1:26f.[24] These different interpretations later came to distinguish what was orthodox from what was heretical in Judaism.[citation needed]
Among the pseudepigrapha 1 Enoch: Book of Parables presents two figures: the son of man and Enoch. At first, these two characters seem to be separate entities. Enoch views the son of man enthroned in Heaven. Later, however, they prove to be one and the same. Many scholars believe that the final chapters in the Book of Parables are a later addition. Others think they are not and that the son of man is Enoch's heavenly double similarly to the Prayer of Joseph where Jacob is depicted as an angel.[25]: 83–84  The Book of Daniel displays two similar characters: the Ancient of Days and the one like a man. Parts of the text in Daniel are Aramaic and may have been changed in translation. The Septuagint reads that the son of man came as the Ancient of Days. All other translations say the son of man gained access to the Ancient of Days and was brought before that one.[26]
The identification of Metatron with the gnostic 3 Enoch, where the name first appears, is not explicitly made in the Talmud although it does refer to a Prince of the World who was young but now is old. However, some of the earliest kabbalists assumed the connection. There also seems to be two Metatrons, one spelled with six letters (מטטרון), and one spelled with seven (מיטטרון). The former may be the transformed Enoch, Prince of the Countenance within the divine palace; the latter, the Primordial Metatron, an emanation of the "Cause of Causes", specifically the tenth and last emanation, identified with the earthly Divine Presence.[27] Furthermore, the Merkabah text Re' uyot Yehezkel identifies the Ancient of Days from the Book of Daniel as Metatron.[26]

Scholem's scholastic analysis​

Many scholars see a discontinuity between how Enoch is portrayed in the early Enoch literature and how Metatron is portrayed. Scholars commonly see the character of Metatron as being based on an amalgam of Jewish literature, in addition to Enoch, Michael, Melchizedek, and Yahoel among others are seen as influences.[25]: 86 
Gershom Scholem argues Metatron's character was influenced by two streams of thought. One of which linked Metatron with Enoch, while the second was a fusing of different obscure entities and mythic motifs.[28]: 180  Scholem argues that this second tradition was originally separate but later became fused with the Enoch tradition.[25]: 141–142  He points to texts where this second Metatron is a primordial angel and referred to as Metatron Rabbah.[25]: 141  Scholem theorizes that the two Hebrew spellings of Metatron's name are representative of these two separate traditions.[25]: 142  In his view the second Metatron is linked to Yahoel. Scholem also links Yahoel with Michael.[25]: 141  In the Apocalypse of Abraham Yahoel is assigned duties normally reserved for Michael. Yahoel's name is commonly seen as a substitute for the Ineffable Name.[29]
In 2 Enoch, Enoch is assigned titles commonly used by Metatron such as "the Youth, the Prince of the Presence and the Prince of the World."[25]: 141  However we do not see Enoch referred to as the Lesser YHWH.[25]: 141  In 3 Enoch, Metatron is called the Lesser YHWH. This raises a problem since the name Metatron does not seem to be directly related to the name of God YHWH.[25]: 140  Scholem proposes that this is because the Lesser YHWH is a reference to Yahoel.[25]: 140  In Maaseh Merkabah the text reasons that Metatron is called the Lesser YHWH because in Hebrew gematria Metatron is numerically equivalent to another name of God Shaddai.[30] Scholem does not find this convincing.[25]: 140 [31] Scholem points to the fact that both Yahoel and Metatron were known as the Lesser YHWH. In 3 Enoch 48D1 Metatron is called both Yahoel Yah and Yahoel.[32] In addition to being one of the seventy names of Metatron from 3 Enoch 48D, Yahoel and Metatron are also linked in Aramaic incantation bowl inscriptions.[25]: 86 [33]

Talmud​

The Babylonian Talmud mentions Metatron by name in three places: Hagigah 15a, Sanhedrin 38b and Avodah Zarah 3b.
Hagigah 15a describes Elisha ben Abuyah in Paradise seeing Metatron sitting down (an action that is not done in the presence of God). Elishah ben Abuyah therefore looks to Metatron as a deity and says heretically: "There are indeed two powers in Heaven!"[34] The rabbis explain that Metatron had permission to sit because of his function as the Heavenly Scribe, writing down the deeds of Israel.[35] The Talmud states, it was proved to Elisha that Metatron could not be a second deity by the fact that Metatron received 60 "strokes with fiery rods" to demonstrate that Metatron was not a god, but an angel, and could be punished.[36]
In Sanhedrin 38b one of the minim tells Rabbi Idith that Metatron should be worshiped because he has a name like his master. Rabbi Idith uses the same passage Exodus 23:21 to show that Metatron was an angel and not a deity and thus should not be worshiped. Furthermore, as an angel Metatron has no power to pardon transgressions nor was he to be received even as a messenger of forgiveness.[36][37][38]
In Avodah Zarah 3b, the Talmud hypothesizes as to how God spends His day. It is suggested that in the fourth quarter of the day God sits and instructs the school children, while in the preceding three quarters Metatron may take God's place or God may do this among other tasks.[39]
Yevamot 16b records an utterance, "I have been young; also I have been old" found in Psalm 37:25. The Talmud here attributes this utterance to the Chief Angel and Prince of the World, whom the rabbinic tradition identifies as Metatron.[40]

Kirkisani​

The tenth century Karaite scholar Jacob Qirqisani believed that rabbinic Judaism was the heresy of Jeroboam of the Kingdom of Israel.[41] He quoted a version of Sanhedrin 38b,[42] which he claimed contained a reference to the "lesser YHVH." Gershom Scholem suggests that the name was deliberately omitted from later copies of the Talmud.[43] However, Qirqisani may have misrepresented the Talmud in order to embarrass his Rabbanite opponents with evidence of polytheism. Extra-talmudic mystical texts such as Sefer Hekhalot do speak of a "lesser YHWH", apparently deriving the concept from Exodus 23:21, which mentions an angel of whom God says "my name [understood as YHVH, the usual divine Proper Name] is in him".

Merkabah, Zohar and other mystical writings​

Metatron also appears in the Pseudepigrapha including Shi'ur Qomah, and most prominently in the Hebrew Merkabah Book of Enoch, also called 3 Enoch or Sefer Hekhalot (Book of [the Heavenly] Palaces). The book describes the link between Enoch, son of Jared (great grandfather of Noah) and his transformation into the angel Metatron. His grand title "the lesser YHVH" resurfaces here. The word Metatron is numerically equivalent to Shaddai (God) in Hebrew gematria; therefore, he is said to have a "Name like his Master".
Metatron says, "He [the Holy One]... called me, 'The lesser YHVH' in the presence of his whole household in the height, as it is written, 'my name is in him.'" (12:5, Alexander's translation.) The narrator of this book, supposedly Rabbi Ishmael, tells how Metatron guided him through Heaven and explained its wonders. 3 Enoch presents Metatron in two ways: as a primordial angel (9:2–13:2) and as the transformation of Enoch after he was assumed into Heaven.[44][45]
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. [Genesis 5:24 KJV.]
This Enoch, whose flesh was turned to flame, his veins to fire, his eye-lashes to flashes of lightning, his eye-balls to flaming torches, and whom God placed on a throne next to the throne of glory, received after this heavenly transformation the name Metatron.[46]
Metatron "the Youth", a title previously used in 3 Enoch, where it appears to mean "servant".[45] It identifies him as the angel that led the people of Israel through the wilderness after their exodus from Egypt (again referring to Exodus 23:21, see above), and describes him as a heavenly priest.
In the later Ecstatic Kabbalah, Metatron is a messianic figure.[47]
The Zohar describes Metatron as the "King of the angels."[48] and associates the concept of Metatron with that of the divine name Shadday.[49] Zohar commentaries such as the "Ohr Yakar" by Moses ben Jacob Cordovero explain the Zohar as meaning that Metaron as the head of Yetzira[50] This corresponds closely with Maimonides' description of the Talmudic "Prince of the World",[51] traditionally associated with Metatron,[52] as the core "Active Intellect."[53][54]
The Zohar describes several biblical figures as metaphors for Metatron. Examples are Enoch,[55][56] Joseph,[57][58] Eliezer,[59] Joshua,[60] and others. The Zohar finds the word "youth" used to describe Joseph and Joshua a hint that the figures are a metaphor to Metatron, and also the concept of "servant" by Eliezer as a reference to Metatron.[61] The Staff of Moses is also described by the Zohar[56] as a reference to Metatron. The Zohar also states that the two tets in "totaphot" of the phylacteries are a reference to Metatron.[62] The Zohar draws distinction between Metatron and Michael.[63] While Michael is described repeatedly in the Zohar as the figure represented by the High Priest, Metatron is represented by the structure of the tabernacle itself.[63]

Apocalyptic texts​

In the Apocalypse of Zerubbabel Metatron is not identified as Enoch. Instead he is identified as the archangel Michael.[25]: 86 [28]: 183–185  The text also records that Metatron in gematria is the equivalent of Shadday.[28]: 55, 184  While he also appears in other apocalyptic writings he is most prominent in the Apocalypse of Zerubbabel.[28]: 183–184  In these writings he plays the role of heavenly interlocutor delivering knowledge about the coming messianic age.[28]: 184 

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The earliest account of Metatron within Islamic scriptures might derive directly from the Quran itself. Uzair, according to Surah 9:30-31 venerated as a Son of God by Jews, is another name for the prophet Ezra,[citation needed] who was also identified with Metatron in Merkabah Mysticism.[64] Islamic heresiologists repeatedly accused Jews for venerating an angel as a lesser god (or an Incarnation of God), especially for celebrating Rosh Hashanah.[65] The name itself is attested early in Islam by Al-Kindi and Al-Masudi.[66] In a Druze text about cosmology, he is mentioned among the canonical Archangels in Islamic traditions.[66] Al-Suyuti identifies him as the angel of the veil and only he knows about that which lies beyond.[67][3][68] He is also frequently mentioned in the magical works by Ahmad al-Buni, who describes Metatron as wearing a crown and a lance, probably constituting the Staff of Moses.[69] In other magical practises, he is invoked to ward off evil jinn, devils, sorcerers and other magical threats.[70]
Ibn Hazm mentions that Jews, although regarding Metatron as an angel, would celebrate Metatron as a lesser god 10 days each year, probably a reference to Rosh Hashanah in connection with Merkabah mysticism that Metatron took part on the creation of the world.[71].

izvor: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Metatron

I posle se pitamo odakle bogohulnici izvlače svoje "ideje"....
 
Učlanjen(a)
22.07.2016
Poruka
11.465
Ovde se ne obraćam samo tebi, tako da moje obraćanje je svima. Samo što se ti uvek javiš. Ali dobro.

Osnovni princip je kao što rekoh, da pojavni oblik Boga nije moguć za stvoreno. Tako da kada imamo tu osnovu na njoj gradimo zaključke. To je princip. Bog ne govori nešto što će opovrgnuti na drugom mestu. Samo čovekovo tumačenje može da naruši ovaj princip pa da tumači da pojavni oblik bude ipak moguć kroz pojavu u grmu.

Kada znamo da to nije moguće, pojavu u grmu ćemo razumeti upravo u kontekstu ovoga što znamo a to je da taj pojavni oblik mora biti ispražnjen Božanskog. Kao i prilikom stvaranja kada Božanstvo mora uzeti oblik stvarstva da bi stvarstvo moglo opstati uopšte.

Svako pojavljivanje u bilo kom vidljivom obliku(da li telesnim ili anđeoskom ili bilo kom drugom) ne može imati u sebi Božanstvo.
 
Učlanjen(a)
07.07.2014
Poruka
18.400
Kada znamo da to nije moguće, pojavu u grmu ćemo razumeti upravo u kontekstu ovoga što znamo a to je da taj pojavni oblik mora biti ispražnjen Božanskog.

Hoćeš reći, Samo je Alah Bog, a Jahve je "muha zvrkulja" koju je stvorio Alah i poslao je da zapali grm i prevari Mojsija.

P.S. Ova šizofrenija na koju si ti spreman, to svijet vidio nije.
 
Učlanjen(a)
22.07.2016
Poruka
11.465
Hoćeš reći, Samo je Alah Bog, a Jahve je "muha zvrkulja" koju je stvorio Alah i poslao je da zapali grm i prevari Mojsija.

P.S. Ova šizofrenija na koju si ti spreman, to svijet vidio nije.

Ti pričaš o tome ne ja. Samo ti vidiš nešto što nije pomenuto.

Samo očigledno si daleko od Biblijskog viđenja Boga, a ti ni sam ne možeš pretpostaviti koliko si daleko.

Ovo su osnovna načela i osnovni postulat Biblijskog Boga. Svaki pojavni oblik je nemoguć. To što je tebi na žalost ova jednostavna stvar čudna, moraš se pitati zašto je tako. Znam ja da ti to intelektualno možeš razumeti no stvar je volje, želiš li prihvatiti jednostavnu i jasnu Biblijsku predstavu Boga.

Nadam se da hoćeš.
 
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