Adventizam i Trojstvo [da li su rani adventisti verovali u Trojstvo?]

[mire000]

Moje mišljenje je da je njena suzdržana izjava bila zbog svađa koje ne prestaju ni danas. Pa zaista i u Bibliji piše da ne možemo spoznati Boga no to ne znači da Biblija ne govori o Ocu i Sinu i Svetom Duhu.

Da, bila je suzdrzana zbog svadja i rasprava, a to da svadje traju do danas, nije istina, nego su ovu pometnju uneli Jehovini Svedoci u njihove redove kopajuci po starim spisima i digli antitrni pokret, veruj mi da mnogi adventisti pojma nemaju niti znaju za taj pokret. To je tek nedavno pokrenuto.

 

[bez_imena]

Da, bila je suzdrzana zbog svadja i rasprava, a to da svadje traju do danas, nije istina, nego su ovu pometnju uneli Jehovini Svedoci u njihove redove kopajuci po starim spisima i digli antitrni pokret, veruj mi da mnogi adventisti pojma nemaju niti znaju za taj pokret. To je tek nedavno pokrenuto.

Vjerujem da bolje znaš od mene taj dio ako ih poznaješ. Ja ih ne poznajem već sam samo pratila spise i povijest ASD. Zanimljivo mi je ovo s Jehovinim Svjedocima što znaš, nisam to znala.

 

[Isabeleta]

Abigajlina pobožnost, kao mirisni cvijet, nesvjesno se širila na njeno lice, u riječi i djela. Duh Sina Božjeg je počivao u njenoj duši. אַיָּל

Koja Abigail? Davidova žena?
Lijep i dojmljiv potpis. Zvuči poetično.

 

[bez_imena]

Koja Abigail? Davidova žena?
Lijep i dojmljiv potpis. Zvuči poetično.

Da to je zaista i pisano u pjesničkom stilu, iako neki tvrde da je baš doslovno. Mislim da bi takvi ljudi trebali pitati nekoga pjesnika, ja sam pitala nekog meni bliskog tko piše pjesme i potvrdio je da je to zaista pjesnički stil.

 

[bez_imena]

Who Shall Be Able to Stand?(Week of Prayer Number - Reading for Wednesday, December 18)R. A. UNDERWOOD 1907
The last days are fraught with perils on every hand. Man's faith in a personal God in heaven will be destroyed, if possible. His hope in a personal divine Saviour, who was crucified for our offenses, raised for our justification, and is now seated at the right hand of his Father in heaven as our High Priest to make an atonement for our sins, will be assailed by philosophy, science, and every device of Satan's master mind. A personal Holy Ghost in charge of the work of grace, under God and Christ, as their representative and appointed agent, to accomplish the work of regeneration of man's soul, body, and spirit, will be discounted and made to appear only as an influence. When faith in the trio of the Godhead is destroyed, and the One delegated with authority to resist and conquer man's foe is rejected as naught, we are left to the cruel buffetings of Satan, .with no power to resist our adversary. In this way man's faith in any special work of God to be done in the earth or in the sanctuary in heaven under the threefold message of Revelation 14 is destroyed.

https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/RH/RH19071121-V84-47.pdf

 

[bez_imena]

termin "Triune" korišten za vrijeme života EGW u ASD crkvi

“Let us not grow overbold concerning the Spirit alone; but remember that he is ever with the Father and the Son, and that whatever he speaks to us he speaks as from them; for it is written, “Whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.” Let him make you know, beloved, how surpassingly beautiful are the blended personalities of our triune God, manifested by the personal presence of the Holy Ghost. To know him is to know the Father and the Son, and these can not be truly known and really honored until we receive and know the Spirit; for no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Holy Ghost.” 1900-04-03 Review and Herald-V77-14 (pdf pg 2)

“Yet if, looking into our faces, watching our daily lives, examining the motives of our every-day actions, they see reflected therein the glory of the Son, the radiance of the Father, and the loving, tender influence of the Comforter, will not they be convinced of the wisdom and love of the Triune God?“ 1901-01-29-Anna C. White, Review and Herald-V78-05 (pdf pg 2)

“Sing holy, holy, holy, To the great God Triune.” 1902-06-05-Present Truth-V18-23

“May we all in glory praise The Triune through endless days. “1905-03-23-Andrew McClintock, Present Truth-V21-12 (pdf pg 7)

“A bath tub was procured, and after a straight talk on the necessity of baptism and salvation through it, I buried Sister Jennie Bagley in the name of the triune Deity.” Atlantic Union Gleaner, p.9, 8/2/1905 JK Humphrey

“FROM GLORY UNTO GLORY ! ” What mighty blessings crown
The lives for which our Lord hath laid His own so freely down!
Omnipotence to keep us, Omniscience to guide,
Jehovah’s Triune Presence within us to abide!“1906-01-01-Oriental Watchman-v09-01 (pdf pg 1)

“In our Doctrinal Bible class we studied some of the leading points of faith composing the system of belief of the Seventh-Day Adventists : e.g., the Power and Inspiration of the Word, the Nature and Character of the Triune God, Creation, the Fall, the Plan of Salvation, the First Advent of Christ, the Second Advent, the Sabbath Question in all its phases, the Tithe, the Ordinance of Humility, and the Earthly Sanctuary and its Services.” H. Camden Lacey 1906-06-06-H. Camden Lacey, Missionary Worker-V10-12 (pdf pg 3)

 

[bez_imena]

R. Hare, AAR, vol. 13. No. 29, JULY 19, 1909.

The Trinity.

In the fourth and fifth centuries many absurd views were set forth respecting the Trinity—views that stood at variance with reason, logic, and Scripture. As these views were formulated into creeds, humanity had to shut its eyes and receive them as the dictates of God, though they were verily human and some of them even satanic. Mystery was heaped upon mystery, and the mind of man at last gave up the effort to reason out the dogmas of what claimed to be religion.Satan was behind this work of mystification, just as he has been behind every other false idea of God. Where Satan cannot lead into absolute unbelief, he will endeavour to mystify so that the belief remaining may prove ineffectual. From the confusing idea of "one God in three Gods," and "three Gods in one God "—the unexplainable dictum of theology—the enemy gladly leads to what appears to be a more rational, though no less erroneous idea —that there is no trinity, and that Christ is merely a created being. But God's great plan is clear and logical. There is a trinity, and in it there are three personalities. We have the Father described in Dan. 7 : 9, 10, a personality surely—the "Ancient of Days" enthroned. In Rev. 1 : 13- 18, we have the Son described. He is also a personality. The appearance and form of the Holy Spirit is not described. He is the agency whereby God revealed His Word to man, and of Him Christ declares, " He shall not speak of Himself." John 16 : 13. Hence the man who speaks much of himself has not a very close acquaintance with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is spoken of through the Scriptures as a personality. These divine persons are closely associated in the work of God. Christ speaks of Himself and the Father as "one." But this union is not one in which individuality is lost. Christ would have His people one even as He and the Father are one. But we know that the union of God's people is to be one of mind not of personality (John 17 : 21-23). This is set forth in the admonition to "be of one mind." 1 Peter 3 : 8.With these scriptures agree the words of the Spirit ill these latter days :— "There are three living persons in the heavenly trio. In the name of these three powers— the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost—those who receive Christ by living faith are to be baptized, and these powers will cooperate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ."—Mrs. E. G. White, in Bible Training School, February, 1906. This is indeed a divine trio, but the Christ of that Trinity was not a created being such as His angels—He was the "only begotten" of the Father, and He came to earth as the one with the Father from the " days of eternity." Micah 5 : 2. His goings forth were of old, and He came full of " grace and truth " to reveal God to man. John 1 : 14, 17.While on earth He ceased not to be divine, for we read of the " divine human suppliant."—Desire of Ages, page 693. "From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father."— Desire of Ages, page 17. "In the eyes of the world He possessed no beauty that they should desire him ; yet He was the incarnate God; the light of heaven and earth."—Desire of Ages, page 21. " Christ had not ceased to be God when He became man. Though He had humbled Himself to humanity, the Godhead was still His own."—Desire of Ages, page 663. Then let not the lips of man speak of Christ as a created being. He is one of the divine trio—the " only begotten Son " of the Father ; and the doctrine that would make Him a created being is not of God. R. HARE https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/AAR/AAR19090719-V13-29.pdf

The Coming Judge. Present Truth, 1908

THE Person by Whom God will judge the world is Jesus Christ, God Man. The second Person in the Trinity, that same Person of Whom we read in our Bibles, Who was born of the Virgin Mary, lived in Galilee and Judea, and was at last crucified without the gates of Jerusalem, will come to judge the world both in His divine and human nature, in the same human body that was crucified, and rose again, and ascended up into heaven. Acts i. 11 : "This same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."—Jonathan Edwards. Present Truth, 1908, Vol. 24, No. 51-52, pg. 812

https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/PT/PT19081224-V24-51,52.pdf

 

[mire000]

Evo ovo isto gore prevedeno (zbog Jovana i Laodikeje sam preveo):

Termin "Triune" je korišten za vrijeme života EGW u ASD crkvi -

“Nemojmo biti pretjerani u pogledu samog Duha; ali zapamtite da je on uvijek s Ocem i Sinom, i da što god nam govori, govori kao od njih; jer je pisano: "Što god čuje, to će govoriti." Neka vam da do znanja, ljubljeni, kako su nevjerojatno lijepe pomiješane osobnosti našeg trojedinog Boga, očitovane osobnom prisutnošću Duha Svetoga. Poznavati ga znači poznavati Oca i Sina, a oni se ne mogu istinski spoznati i stvarno poštovati dok ne primimo i ne upoznamo Duha; jer nitko ne može nazvati Isusa Gospodinom osim po Duhu Svetom.” 1900-04-03 Review and Herald-V77-14 (pdf str. 2)

„Ipak, ako, gledajući u naša lica, promatrajući naš svakodnevni život, ispitujući motive naših svakodnevnih postupaka, vide kako se u njima odražavaju Sinova slava, Očev sjaj i ljubavni, nježni utjecaj Tješitelja, zar se neće uvjeriti u mudrost i ljubav Trojedinog Boga?“ 1901-01-29-Anna C. White, Review and Herald-V78-05 (pdf str. 2)

“Pjevajte sveto, sveto, sveto, Velikom Bogu Trojedinom.” 1902-06-05-Present Truth-V18-23

„Neka svi u slavi hvalimo Trojstvo kroz beskrajne dane. “1905-03-23-Andrew McClintock, Present Truth-V21-12 (pdf str. 7)

“pokopao sam sestru Jennie Bagley u ime trojedinog Božanstva.” Atlantic Union Gleaner, str. 9, 8/2/1905 JK Humphrey

„Jehovina trojstvena prisutnost u nama da ostane!“1906-01-01-Oriental Watchman-v09-01 (pdf str. 1)

“Na našem doktrinarnom biblijskom satu proučavali smo neke od vodećih točaka vjere koje sačinjavaju sustav vjerovanja adventista sedmog dana: npr. moć i nadahnuće riječi, prirodu i karakter trojedinog Boga, stvaranje, pad. , Plan spasenja, Prvi Kristov dolazak, Drugi dolazak, pitanje subote u svim njegovim fazama, desetina, Uredba poniznosti i zemaljsko svetište i njegove službe.” H. Camden Lacey 1906-06-06-H. Camden Lacey, misionarski radnik-V10-12 (pdf str. 3)

neprijatelj rado dovodi do onoga što se čini racionalnijom, iako ništa manje pogrešnom idejom - da ne postoji trojstvo i da je Krist samo stvoreno biće. Ali Božji veliki plan je jasan i logičan. Postoji trojstvo, a u njemu su tri osobnosti. Imamo Oca opisanog u Dan. 7 : 9, 10, sigurno osobnost — "Pradavnica" na prijestolju. U Otk 1,13-18 imamo opisanog Sina. On je također osobnost. Izgled i oblik Duha Svetoga nisu opisani. On je sredstvo kojim je Bog objavio svoju Riječ čovjeku, a Krist o Njemu izjavljuje: "Neće govoriti sam od sebe." Ivan 16:13. Stoga čovjek koji mnogo govori o sebi nema baš blisko poznanstvo s Duhom Svetim. O Duhu Svetom govori se kroz Sveto pismo kao o osobnosti. Ove su božanske osobe usko povezane s Božjim djelom. Krist govori o sebi i Ocu kao o "jednom". Ali ovaj spoj nije onaj u kojem se gubi individualnost. Krist želi da Njegov narod bude jedan kao što su On i Otac jedno. Ali mi znamo da jedinstvo Božjeg naroda treba biti ujedinjenje uma, a ne osobnosti (Ivan 17:21-23). Ovo je izloženo u opomeni da "budite jednodušni". 1. Petrova 3:8. S ovim se stihovima slažu riječi Duha iz ovih posljednjih dana:— "Postoje tri žive osobe u nebeskom trojcu. U ime ove tri sile — Otac, Sin i Duh Sveti — oni koji primaju Krista živom vjerom trebaju biti kršteni, a te će moći surađivati s poslušnim podanicima neba u njihovim nastojanjima da žive novi život u Kristu.” — gđa. E. G. White, u Bible Training School, veljača 1906. Ovo je doista božanski trio, ali Krist tog Trojstva nije bio stvoreno biće poput Njegovih anđela—On je bio "jedinorođeni" od Oca i došao je zemlju kao onu s Ocem od "dana vječnosti". Mihej 5:2. Njegovi su izlasci od davnina i došao je pun "milosti i istine" da otkrije Boga čovjeku. Ivan 1:14, 17. Dok je bio na zemlji, nije prestao biti božanski, jer čitamo o "božanskom ljudskom molitelju." - Desire of Ages, stranica 693. "Od dana vječnosti Gospodin Isus Krist bio je jedno s Oče."— Desire of Ages, stranica 17. "U očima svijeta nije posjedovao nikakvu ljepotu da bi ga željeli; ipak je bio utjelovljeni Bog; svjetlost neba i zemlje."—Desire of Ages, stranica 21 "Krist nije prestao biti Bog kad je postao čovjekom. Iako se ponizio do čovječanstva, Božanstvo je i dalje bilo Njegovo vlastito." - Desire of Ages, stranica 663. Onda neka ljudske usne ne govore o Kristu kao stvorenom biće. On je jedan od božanskog trojca - "Jedinorođeni Sin" od Oca; a doktrina koja bi Ga učinila stvorenim bićem nije od Boga. R. ZECA



Sudac koji dolazi. Sadašnja istina, 1908

Osoba po kojoj će Bog suditi svijetu je Isus Krist, Bogočovjek. Druga Osoba u Trojstvu, ona ista Osoba o kojoj čitamo u našim Biblijama, Koja je rođena od Djevice Marije, živjela je u Galileji i Judeji, i na kraju je razapeta u Jeruzalemu, doći će suditi svijetu u Njegovoj božanskoj i ljudskoj prirodi, u istom ljudskom tijelu koje je bilo razapeto, i ponovno uskrsnulo, i uzneseno na nebo. Djela i. 11: "Ovaj isti Isus koji je od vas uzet na nebo, doći će na isti način kao što ste ga vidjeli kako odlazi na nebo." - Jonathan Edwards. Sadašnja istina, 1908., sv. 24, br. 51-52, str. 812

 

[Laodikeja]

Mire.

Kaži onda - zašto na drugom mestu duh proroštva kaže:

"Način na koji su spiritualisti opovrgli jedinog Gospoda Boga, i Gospoda našega Isusa Hrista, je tako što su koristili staru trinitarijansku veru da je Isus Hrist večni Bog, i ako nemaju ni jedan stih da to podrži.
Dok mi imamo jasna svedočanstva u izobilju da je on sin večnog Boga" ( jutarnja zvezda. Januar 24 1846 ).

 

[bez_imena]

Hvala puno Mire htjela sam samo s ovime pokazati da nisu stvari baš crno-bijele u Adventizmu

Laodikeja čija je to izjava? Da li je to Ellen White?

Ne tražim od vas da promijenite svoje mišljenje, no ipak postavila sam tu linkove sve se može provjeriti. Možda sam ja jednostavna ili gledam to jednostavno ali kad čitam Bibliju ja vidim da postoji Otac, SIn i Sveti Duh. Meni nije baš toliko bitno kao vama što su vaši pioniri vjerovali i govorili, ipak su mnogi od njih došli iz antitrinitarnog pokreta Kršćanska veza, za mene su oni samo ljudi ne i proroci, mi ljudi radimo greške.
Neka je svako uvjerenu u svoje, meni ne smeta

Svako dobro!